>> right now on "showbiz tonight." dave's extortion war. brand-new shocking revelations today about the guy accused of trying to black mare david letterman. on the today show, meredith vieira asks his lawyer, are you kidding me? >> you concerned that a lot of people listen to this are going to say give me a break? >> is the excuse for what was done to letterman ridiculous? >> the carrie prejean-donald

trump smack down. the donald strikes back at claims about him. is she just plain out of her mind to take on the donald? tonight, jon gosselin's incredible funny or die video. can jon right his wrongs? ♪ tv's most provocative entertainment news show starts right now. i'm a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. >> i'm brooke anderson coming from hollywood. dave's ex-portion war. outrageous new claims and excuses by the guy accused of

trying to extort $2 million from david letterman. so over the top that people were saying they were right up there with my dog my homework. it was all out war as attorneys for both the suspect and letterman made their cases which also made for big news breaking today. >> this was not extortion or black mail. >> say it again. >> it was not extortion or black mail. >> the attorney for david letterman's black mailer hit the morning shows and repeatedly denied the trying to extort money from david letterman. >> he came into possession of certain intellectual property. he had a right to sell that property. >> he said he was simply trying to sell letterman a screen play for $2 million. at 6:00 in the morning. no big whoop? seriously? are you kidding me? >> if this was not extortion, what was it?

>> a commercial transaction. it may not have been an ordinary electronics action, but it was permitted by law. >> let's face it. it was a hard sell. this morning today show anchor meredith vieira asked the question a lot of us were thinking. >> you concerned that a lot of people listening to this are going to say give me a break? >> this defense by his lawyer is absolutely ridiculous. come on. if you are selling a script, there ways to sell a script. it sounds like foul play and illegal behavior. >> this was the word i used. that's a little hinky. >> he revealed the plot on his show in october. he said this guy tried to sell him a screen play describing the details of an affair he was having with a woman who worked for him who also happened to be his long time live in girlfriend. >> i don't usually receive packages at 6:00 in the morning in the back of my car. there is a letter in the package

and it says that i know that you do some terrible, terrible things. >> letterman took the letter to authorities and halterman was arrested. he's innocent and wants the case dismissed. he said on "good morning america" and the "today" show that these claims of innocence are a bunch of bunk. >> this was not a legitimate transaction. who negotiates a business transaction at 6:00 in the morning in the shadows of somebody's apartment building? he said your world is about to collapse. >> halterman's lawyer said 6:00 a a.m. is a fine time. >> you go back to 6:00 in the morning as if you have to make the request during normal business hours? i don't get it. >> he said i have embarrassing material and asks for money and gets a check for $2 million.

a check! it seems like an open and shut case. >> if the case goes to trial which it looks like it will, part of the defense would be to say that he created a hostile work environment by sleeping with employees. we brought in a lawyer of our own and ran it by him. whether he created a hostile environment is irrelevant. what happens now? it look like the case will go to trial. once again david letterman will be dragged into a ver public and potentially very embarrassing situation. the question is, will a judge bate argument the defense is selling? >> let's get to the burning question? was letterman black mailed or was it a stupid pet trick?

an entertainment journalist and tonight in new york, carolina ber mused from in touch weekly. a why will not be dismissed until january, but between now and then, i think the attorney for the suspect would do himself and his client a huge favor by not going on tv like he did this morning, making these ridiculous claims. are you with me? >> not 100%. the guy kind of admitted guilt on behalf of holderman by saying most of the public does probably believe this is a bunch of malarkey. you can hear him saying that, but he doesn't have to convince these people. just one judge. one person he has to convince. >> you admit this is a bit suspect. this is not a legitimate business transaction. >> don't get ahead of me. i have been in the biz for a

long time and i don't know about you, but if i was thinking of pitching a screen play about david letterman's sexual misbehaviors, i would drive it over to letterman's house and perhaps include private photos and diaries and demand $2 million. i don't know. maybe drop it in his car first thing in the morning at 6:00 a.m. after all, his attorney said today that's the way it's done. here's what he said on "good morning america." >> he knew letterman's driver and gave the package to the driver. he didn't break into the car. i don't quite know why people focus on that. would it be better if he sent it federal express. was there a requirement of the law? by the way, to keep going back to 6:00 in the morning. do you have to make the request during normal business hours? i don't get it. >> quite frankly, i don't get it either. who takes business proposals to people during normal business

hours anyway? what a crazy idea. the whole thing is nuts. >> this is crazy. he is trying to weasel out of things. that's something that needs to be -- everybody saw he went and cashed a $2 million check. what does that you? he had incriminating pictures and this was set up as a blake mail plot. it's an open and shut case. >> it's open and shut in the court of public opinion, but law, is he going to get off on a technicality? >> he knows how the industry works and that there proper procedures and ways to get the ideas read by the people you want to buy your script. this is not the way to do it. taking a round at 6:00 and giveing it to a driver is sneaky and suspect. i don't believe this guy. >> watching the lawyer on television, lawyers are like the vampires on true blood. they can glamorize you for a

moment. i was thinking maybe. >> that's his job. that's what he's supposed to do. >> this lawyer filed a motion to dismiss the case claiming that letterman was guilty of sexually harassing employees. letterman's attorney is asking what a lot of people are asking. what does it have to do with extortion? keep it in mind that the woman who letterman was having an affair with seemed that it was a case of revenge. >> absolutely. i think bring up the sexual harassment stuff probably doesn't hold a lot in court, but i think it will make letterman think twice. do i want to drag this out? they are ready to go to battle. so much more is going to be revealed. maybe this mice entice letterman to either drop it or do a settlement on the side. that's why his lawyers are doing this. that's how i see it.

>> i have to get to this next story. carrie prejean versus donald trump. she accuses the donald by dividing contestants by their looks and humiliating them. >> carrie should be ashamed of herself. i would never say you go over here and you go over there. >> what a fight this is turning out to be. i am thinking carrie prejean is in way over her head. stay where you are. we have got the beauty versus the donald. that hot debate is coming up on "showbiz tonight." now ready for our "showbiz tonight" question of the day. here's what we need to know. carrie prejean versus donald trump. is the beauty queen in over her head? here's where you e-mail us. show biz don't@cnn.com. is jon gosselin cleaning up his act? check out the new video.

>> i want to go back to the normal simple lifelike i used to have. >> can jon really turn back time and right his wrongs? i have the outrageous new video. fresh out of high heels, a stripper claimed she had an affair with josh duhamel. >> people get run over and have a close call over and over again on tv. >> show biz caught on tape. and death cliff hanger you have to see to believe. >> more stories making news right now.

>> you are watching "showbiz tonight." keep on watching the bottom of your screen for more nonstop, compelling and provocative news from "showbiz tonight."

it's been a long two weeks. i have seen my friends here and then and talked to them and i have been to school and i had teachers come out and i had to do homework at home. >> did you see this? a girl who can't stop sneezing. it started a couple of weeks ago when she was recover for example a cold. since then it has been happening all the time like 10 times or more per minute and doctors can't figure out what's wrong with lauren. on the "today" show, the doctor said it could be an involuntary tick. we wish lauren well. welcome back. i'm brooke anderson n hollywood with a.j. hammer in new york. caught on tape, people cheating death. this is absolutely incredible. by now, you have probably seen the shocking video of the woman in boston who fell on to train tracks and survived with only a few scratches.

amazingly, there have been a lot of people in the past year or so caught on tape nearly being killed. they all involve trains. here's jeannie moos for "showbiz tonight." >> who hasn't contemplated their own demise when waiting for a train. this woman said she was drunk trying to stamp out a cigarette and looked up to see the headlights of an on coming train. this is what the operator saw. people frantically waiving. >> they said slow the train down and a woman pokes her head up. i it into emergency. >> in the knick of time, the train came to a stop. >> after the fact she came up and i'm like oh, my god! it was scary. >> people got her up on the

platform, unhurt. it has been a banner year for people getting run over and having a close call over and over again on tv. there was the israeli woman who tried to commit suicide by lying down on the tracks and 10 seconds later got up and staggered up and the run away baby stroller in australia with a 6-month-old boy inside. the mother told the "today" show about finding her son beneath the train. >> as we were approaching, i could hear him crying. i was relieved by the feeling that my boy is alive. >> again, unhurt. wouldn't it be nice if we were all as agile as the matrix? he didn't have to content with a train. this man lost his hat, but not his life. >> i cannot remember anything

about the accident. i thought i was sleeping. i was on the ground. >> dudley do wright used to ride to the rescue. they do right on their own. >> is really beautiful. >> a woman told the boston tv station that the driver was alert and stopped the train before it hit her. >> the phone lines have been ringing off the hook with people calling in about carrie prejean's solo sex tape confession. >> we're got a call in from linda in new york. she said we should give carrie a break. >> she made a mistake. it was a tape between her and her boyfriend. she was 17. this is now, that was then. she is not perfect. >> thank you for your call.

>> we're heard from casey calling in from washington who has, shall we say, a different opinion about carrie's situation. >> i don't know why we are still talking about thisity loti. s she is not the brightest bulb on the tree. when are people going to learn to stop making sex tapes? obviously they don't end up good for anybody. it's a no brainer. >> the show biz phone lines are open all the time. >> call us at 888-sbt-buzz. >> hold on. is this right? carrie prejean is taking on donald trump? >> carrie should be ashamed of herself. she is trying to sell a book. i can't imagine too many people would be interested. >> this is the donald. the startying claims about how he runs beauty pageants. she said he separates the

pageants by looks. seriously, carrie taking on the donald? are you out of your mind? making big news today. stunning developments with the j-lo sex tape. will jennifer lopez's ex-be able to release this video? an outrageous jon gosselin video. people say you can't go back. i will learn from my mistakes and be the righteous person i can be. >> sounds like a good move, but do you mean? will it help jon's image? >> it's time now for the "showbiz news ticker" making news right now.

. >> keep watching the bottom of your screen for nonstop, compelling and provocative news from "showbiz tonight."

john travolta speaks out in a new interview. travolta was on ellen today. he thanked his fans for their support since the tragic death of his teen son, jett. >> one moment to thank each of you throughout this country and the world for all your support and all your love for our family. thank you very much. >> a lot of love. >> i feel it. >> john was there to promote his new movie, old dogs. his wife costars and his daughter ella blue makes her film debut. she joined her dad for her first

tv interview. >> it's hard to watch yourself. did you find you were looking and say is that how i talk? >> well, kind of, but it was fun to see me. i was like yes! not only just my parents, but me up there too. >> yeah. that's pretty cool. i don't know how many other people can say they worked with their mom and dad in a movie. you have two big movie stars and do you know how cool your dad is? do you realize how cool he is? >> always. >> that's fantastic that you know that. >> so sweet. you can see ella blue with her parents in old dogs in theaters november 25th. >> all about sex tapes on facebook. people do have plenty to say about the sex tape that judge lo's exshus threatening to release and the solo sex tape jo lo made when she was 17. she sees a big difference between the two.

j-lo should sue, but the other is using hers for publicity. everyone needs to keep it in the bedroom and keep the sex lives solo and to themselves. i'm sick of hearing about it. you can sign up. >> here's what's coming up at the bottom of the hour. the beauty versus the donald. a war of words for the ages. is carrie prejean out of her mind to be going up against trump? is jon gosselin trying to clean up his image. >> jon said you can't go back, but i am going to go back and learn from my mistakes and be the righteous person i can be. >> his new video and can he turn back time and make everything better? >> fresh on the heels of a stripper claiming she had an affair with josh duhamel, his wife admits she has been tempted

to cheat with other women. >> now the news ticker and more stories from the newsroom making news right now. keep on watching the bottom of your screen for more nonstop compelling and provocative news from "showbiz tonight." a areare )%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)%)i

>> carrie should be ashamed of herself. she is trying to sell a book and i can't imagine too many people would be interested in it. >> the brand-new fight between the beauty and the donald. carrie prejean makes startling claims about donald trump and the donald slams carrie. i have to ask, is carrie out of her mind to take on trump? explosive developments in the j-lo shocker. will jennifer lopez's ex be able to release a steamy tape of her? >> i want to go back to the

normal simple like i used to have. ♪ >> dude, what's with the cher song? outrageous new video. will this help him turn back time and fix his image? more stories breaking from the "showbiz news ticker." tv's most provocative entertainment news show continues right now. >> welcome back to "showbiz tonight." 30 minutes past the hour and this is a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. >> from hollywood, the beauty versus the donald. an all out war of words broke out between donald trump and conservative former beauty queen carrie prejean. trump is taking no prisoners, blasting carrie prejean for claims about how he runs his beauty pageants.

carrie claims the donald singled out the beauty queens and humiliated them. watch what she told barbara walters on "the view." >> she separated? >> he said california, step forward. who do you think is the most beautiful girl on the stage. i had to say alabama. >> the donald is fighting back and you won't believe what he has to say about carrie prejean. a war of words like no other. >> carlos diaz is a correspondent for extra in new york. whitney casey is author of the man plan. donald trump's attack came the same day she publicly acknowledged that yes, she made a sex tape of herself. carrie is out promoting a new book and claims donald trump took time to single out the prettiest women, picking and choosing who is hot and who is not. the donald gave a new interview to extra and donald slams carrie's claims. listen to this.

>> carrie should be a slamed of herself. i would never say you go over here and you go over there. >> donald said you guys were making big headlines. just how mad is he? >> i expected him to be madder. i heard him a lot madder. he was very careful with his words to defend himself and use terms like she should be ashamed of herself, but he never attacked her specifically. he was defending himself as far as separating the women on stage. eats a beauty contest. they will be separated by some kind of beauty. >> let me head to you. certainly i would never do a thing like that because it would be too hurtful. i don't stand the less attractive on one side and the beautiful on the other side.

it was fiction in her imagination and i don't know how she came up with that. she should not have written that in the book. he said she is trying to sell the book and doing the best she can. i can't imagine too many people would be interested in it, but you never know what sells these days. is carrie prejean just plain crazy for taking on donald trump? nobody takes on donald trump like that and gets away with it. >> i will go for the ko. she jumped into the ring with perez hilton and now she is jumping in with the mohammed ali of media. i am usually a blond sympathizer, but it's the ko right there. >> carlos, you and i have been dealing with donald trump.

>> a lightweight steps into the ring and you say to yourself, what are you going do to me? any one of your punches is not going to hurt me. as far as donald trump suing her for what she said, only if she stays around for a while which i don't see happening. >> when carrie was on the view, barbara walters said donald trump is thinking of suing for what she said. do you think that donald would actually go through with suing her as carlos said if she sticks around or is it a scare tactic. he does speak loutly sometimes. >> he does, but i don't think donald trump is afraid to be le tijuous. he supported and defended her numerous times and sat by her side and saying her praises when not many were. i'm shocked she said these things about him, but she has to sell the book and what better way to get attention than a public feud with donald trump.

>> we are looking at the image with them arm in arm where donald said i'm not going to fire her and now it's different. paula is the president of miss universe and she is clafting carrie prejean. she gave an interview on "the joy behar show." she laid into carrie for claims about trump. you have to see what she said. >> mr. trump who bent over backwards and defended her even when she was caught in lie after lie. she totally lied and really did not tell the truth about getting behind the scenes in the pageant. it was more to make herself look good. if you want to sell a book if you put donald trump's name in it, that's the best way to. enough already. this was not about peranswer, but the fact that he was

absolutely impossible to work with. >> paula makes a great point. you want to sell a book, start a fight with don 58d trump. let me ask you, do you think the whole thing could backfire on carrie? she is getting all this attention and here we are talking about it and mentioning the book and the fact that it's out, but it has been faded away. >> from one author to another, it's probably not going to backfire, but one of the blonds that is going to win is not going to be her. it's going to be ivanka trump. she will be the blond at the top of the list for selling books and not carrie prejean. furthermore, it's not this that sells books. it's that sex tape. i think it's a small coincidence that that came out the week she is on the book tour. >> you are not the first to

bring that up. for the question of the day, we asked carrie prejean's sex tape confession. has she lost credibility? 81%. it's one-sided. 81% said yes and 19% said no. regardless of whether or not you felt she had credibility to begin with, you look at the result like that and it doesn't say a lot for carrie's future in her career. >> let me ask you this question. there was a miss los angeles scandal with the miss california and miss los angeles contestants being messed up with the voting. a few years ago huh miss usa with drug use and partying. do you remember any of their names at all? that's what happens. what happens is we as a society have a short memory. six months from now carrie prejean will be a distant memory. >> six months from now, will we

discuss carrie prejean unless she is picking another fight? >> unless there is another sex tape. my paper back comes out in january so i better get busy in the bedroom. >> and kick up dirt with donald trump. see where it takes you. we will tell you it means we will be on the phone or sitting across the desk, asking him why did you say that about whitney, in your case. >> i would buy her book. >> thanks, guys. appreciate it. >> we asked you to vote on the question of the day. carrie prejean versus donald trump. is the former beauty queen in over her head? this is where you vote. cnn.com/"showbiz tonight." "showbiz tonight".cnn.com. watch this. >> i want to go back to the

normal simple like i used to have. ♪ >> yes, that's really jon. what's with the cher song, man. you have it got to see this thing. will it help jon's image. making big news, developments surrounding the jennifer lopez reported sex tape. will judge lo's ex be able to release it. fergie's bisexual confession. josh duhamel has been accused of cheating had her with a stripper. she has thoughts about cheating with other women. >> more stories from the newsroom making news right now.

i want to you keep on watching the bottom of your screen for more nonstop, compelling and provocative news from "showbiz tonight."

♪

if i could turn back time ♪ ♪ if i could find a way >> you have to see the i had liruous video starring jon gosselin. it might change everyone's opinion of him forever. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm brooke anderson n hollywood with a.j. hammer in new york. jon's big laugh after months of being a laughingstock from everything from lating three women at the same time to living it up in the hamptons. jon gosselin was the center of a hilarious video about his outrageous drama-filled life. why is he doing this now? is it more fact than fiction? we will get to the burning questions in a moment, but first, jon's big laugh. watch this. >> for the past few months, i have been looking back and thinking this is not me. this is not what i want to do. i want to go back to the normal simple lifelike i used to have.

i will try, try, try. people say to me jon, you can't go back. i am going to go back and learn from my mistakes and be the righteous person i can be. ♪ if i could turn back time ♪ if i could find a way ♪ i'd take back those words that will hurt you and you'd stay ♪ ♪ i don't know why i did the things i did ♪ ♪ i don't know why i said the things i said ♪ ♪ words are like weapons, they wound sometimes ♪ >> i'm sorry. the party's over.

>> i will never forget you, jon gosselin. ♪ i know i made you cry >> seriously? ♪ pif i could turn back time ♪ >> you will have to take my name off the list forever. >> you are breaking my heart here, come on! >> we heard jon gosselin might be in there. >> cool. tell him i said goodbye. >> later, buddy. >> people say jon, you can't go back. at least i'm going to try. >> after watching that, i wonder why in the world is jon gosselin making fun of himself and giving us more to goof on him about.

we have an entertainment journalist and carolina bermudez for in touch weekly. this was the best move for jon? >> a huge move. this was great. this is a breaking news alert. exclusive on "showbiz tonight." jon gosselin is here to stay. we think of jon as the tlc show. when is it going to be over? he came back with a vengeance and making fun of himself. this is the best move he could make. >> i'm sorry. >> natalie portman does. >> we're are not laughing with him. we are laughing at him. it will take more than him dirk the hair gel and the vodka to think this guy is legit. this is so sad.

>> who is on the cover of "showbiz tonight"? he manipulates us and he is making fun of himself. >> you need to be filling out job applications and not doing poof videos. the guy will be unemployed and he will be spending time doing something for his future. >> you don't think he will get a show? he will be back on reality television. >> not if tlc has their way. >> what makes it so funny is we wish he would simmer down and go back to his normal life for the sake of his eight young beautiful kids. are you with me that although this is hilarious, you hope it's true. >> i do. i hope it's true. i think jon needs a wake up call and the reactions from this video will give him the kick in the butt he needs.

>> kate gosselin shows she has a funny bone, taking a swipe at her own infamy on the jay leno show. >> kate, what did you buy? >> seriously, i am exhausted. leave me alone and stop taking pictures. >> a couple more, kate. a couple more. >> hey, what did mommy just say? >> what? >> i asked to you stop taking pictures and you continued. >> we are not your kids, ma'am. >> we are not part of your plus eight. >> don't talk back to your mother. >> what is the better comic? jon or kate? >> i will give it to jon on this one. this is a small one, but it's hilarious. kate had the writing staff behind him so i will give the edge to jon. >> giving the edge to jon. i want to move to explosive new developments in the j-lo sex tape shocker. a judge just extendeded a

restraining order preventing her first husband from releasing a sex tape of her. is she out of the woods yet? >> not battling back and fourth for years. there is something he has on her. i don't think this is the last we will see of this case. >> he needs to drop it and stop trying to live off his ex. so josh has really come under fire. he has been accused of cheating on his beautiful wife with a stripper. i can tell you fergie has thoughts of cheating herself. it is thoughts of cheating with other women. now here are more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now.

>> you are watching "showbiz tonight." and right now you got keep on watching the bottom of your screen because we are bringing you more news from "showbiz tonight."

did you see this? a company advertising billboard space is using paris hilton as the poster girl as the concept of vacant. i think it is funny and clevery. oddly paris doesn't seem to share my sense of humor. they are using her image without her permission and i say they are party poopers. well, fergie is bisexual. she has an impulse to cheat with other women. her response? no duh. they are tabloid foder because of a tripper that claims to have

had sex with josh. fergie admitted this long before the stripper incident. she says, quote -- >> ashley judd has won the fourth annual hollywood hero award. stars showed up to see her get the awart. the honor goes to a celebrity humanitarian. since 2002, she has been an advocate for an hiv and prevention program called youth aids. >> my fwrand mother.

my grandmother. i have a lot of love to give which is why i do the work that i do. the people that i see around the world who in spite of incredible poverty are fan tasically resilient and have so much love to give, those are the people who really inspire me. and i am inspired by my classmates. they have incredibly diverse backgrounds. they literally believe we can irrat kate poverty and change problems into sustainable solutions. >> and once again this year, cnn has its all star tribute to heroes on thanks giving night. and remember to vote for hero of the year. so on thursday we asked you to vote on our question of the day and just moments ago i was handed the final results. the sex tape confession, has she lost credibility. the results, totally one sided.

>> that is it for "showbiz tonight." thank you for watching. >> you can catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s. coming up, could it be true? it looks like jon and kate will be back together for christmas at least. nothing like a house filled with cheer. not! and serena williams stops by to discuss her new book "on the line" and what happened when she crossed the line. and finally, sarah palin is back in the news and guess what, she was wrong about something.

i can't believe it! all that and more next.

tonight on "the joy behar show" jon and kate will be together for christmas. maybe santa will drop some mood stabilizers in their stockings. also the guy accused of shaking down david letterman said he was only making a sales pitch. i'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse. then i'll ask tennis champ serena williams about girls going wild on the playing field. male athletes brawling is old news, but now it seems as though female players have joined the fight club. all in and a second serving of paula dean tonight.

good news, the eight gosselin children will be spending christmas today. the bad news, their parents are going to be there too. joining me tonight are faith sailee, commentator and writer for slate.com. and penn jillette, magician extraordinary oar an libertarian. these children are going to have christmas with their parents. >> i think it's good for all of us. they have given us comedic fodder and halloween wigs and another reason to hate ed hardy, it's good.

>> what about the children? is santa going to show up with like reindeer? >> michael lohan will be dressed as santa. >> who? >> jon's best friend. >> i don't even know who it is. >> lindsay lohan's dad. >> oh, the lohan guy. >> she was studying your notes. you gotta know this stuff. >> it's this and freud. >> the gift that keeps on giving only to us. >> but the cops were called in to mediate. what about the children, doesn't it give them a false sense of security to be around these two for christmas thinking that they're then going to be going together again? >> well, i certainly think that from a legal perspective that whoever made the decision that joint custody meant joint christmas wasn't really thinking about the best interests of the children. they were thinking about the best interests of ratings and fodder for people like us to talk about. >> it's not going to be

televised, but that brings me to the next question, which is because it's not going to be televised, do you think that they're doing this, the gosselins, to get on television? is that too cynical of me, penn? >> well, i don't know of somebody that has a show with their name on it can accuse people of going for publicity. you have a show with your name on it. that's the way we see it, i guess. i don't know, is it good for the children for people all over america to be discussing how they're going to spend their christmas? >> these two have been slamming each other in public. let's look at this. >> i was beaten down. she separated me from my family. she used to hold the kids over my head and say, you know, don't spend time with your mom, spend time with your kids. >> he took $230,000 of the $231,000 that we have liquid. i have a stack of bills in my purse i can't drop in the mail. >> if that's what they do in public, how are they going to be with each other in private? >> yeah. >> jon did say that he wants -- >> maybe they do it in public and not in private.

did you ever think of that? >> that would be good for the kids. >> there's no private left, is there? >> everything is for the bulk of the shows, no matter what, directly or indirectly, whether it's televised or not, it's still part of this whole publicity package. >> jon did say he wanted the kids together to have their old traditions which i think is kate hanging his balls on the tree. so i hope that the kids have that at least. >> jon's nuts roasting on the open fire. okay, let's change topics. >> it's your show. >> it is. unless you have anything else you want to add to that. >> we'll leave it at nuts, joy. >> whatever. the letterman mess, okay. the latest news from court is that the man accused of trying to extort the late-night host insists it was merely a business proposal gone horribly wrong and his lawyers are digging in for a long fight. will people be able to have sex at work again, ever again. what do you think about that story? do you think it's extortion or just that he was trying to sell a screenplay? >> you're the lawyer.

>> as a defense attorney, this is the classic defense muddying up the waters. let's start throwing out the defense really early on and tainting our potential jury pool and making it think that it is a deal, a movie deal gone bad. however, why are we at 6:30 in the morning seeing this man in david letterman, the back of his car, why are we having mysterious dealings and why is this something that smells a lot more like stalking and revenge than it does sound like the way traditional movies are done. >> well, i think stalking and revenge is the backbone of show business. i think that every showbiz business deal would look that way anyway. i don't know, you said it was a business deal gone bad. i think that's the definition of extortion, isn't it? >> you're the lawyer. is that the definition of extortion? >> no, it is not a business deal gone bad but it is using or threatening to use or misuse someone's position and cast someone in a bad light and get money or get some sort of benefit in exchange for not revealing that information. i see that all of the elements are right there. granted the check writing happened, but that was all at that point after the police were contacted.

>> but they could make the case that he's really just -- he slipped him the screenplay at 6:00 in the morning. it's as good a time as any to give to a celebrity that you're not going to see any other time. >> but he gave it to his driver. >> with the condition i'm not going to tell about your sexual escapades. let's not forget that very key part. and let's look at what david letterman subjectively felt. and he felt that he was being used for money, which i think is an important part of an element of where this is. >> is that defensible, how i felt? >> it is interesting with blackmail that it's one of the only crimes that only becomes a crime when money is involved of the it's like prostitution that way. he could have said all that stuff and be absolutely okay, but blackmail is a fairly recent crime, right, the past 200 years or so. really, it's not one that goes back like murder and, you know, all the way back. >> let's hear from the other side, letterman's attorney spoke to "good morning america." listen. >> who negotiates a business transaction at 6:00 in the

morning in the shadows of somebody's apartment building? who says your world is about to collapse? who threatens their personal and professional lives? and who says at 6:00 in the morning i need an answer in two hours? those are not the ear marks of a legitimate business transaction, those are the ear marks of classic blackmail. >> did anyone ever try to sell you something at 6:00 in the morning, penn? >> i believe that somebody tried to sell something -- what they're selling at 6:00 in the morning, i want. but people -- i mean i think it's pretty clear that there's -- that that's a pretty fake defense. >> let's say, let me say, for example, letterman is always doing jokes about sarah palin and he got in trouble with the daughter and that whole thing. what if sarah palin's people called him up and said, look, we'll give you an interview if you stop doing the jokes. is that blackmail? is that quid pro quo? because no money is exchanged, it's not considered blackmail? >> no, that wouldn't be blackmail. that would be a business dealing because that is happening on a

phone call that happens within the regular course of business and it's not being done to ensure that private information is not out in the public. we need to look at what the information and the subject of what was being extortable. it was not in the course of business. >> i see. >> and there's not the threat that your whole world will collapse around you, what is what halderman said. you guys have been in pitch meetings and they usually involve bottled water and parking violations and not the threat that buy this or the whole world will collapse around you. it doesn't work. >> do you think that there was -- somebody said why didn't he just give them the money and shut up and it would have gone away. >> i'm sure that's happened to many, many celebrities before and good for david letterman for coming out in order to make these things stop. i'm sure people have paid these people off. >> the defendant's lawyer said letterman's select is why we're here today, in court. what do you think of that? if joe schmo has an affair with mary bakery, who cares but he's a celebrity. it was a torrid affair, oh, they were hot. >> i don't know, i think actually letterman's select is to his disadvantage in this case

because people are looking at him as to whether he made a good choice of having sex with someone, one of his colleague, and now he's being criticized, so i don't know that his select is helping him in this matter. >> the celebrity is what's horrible about it. i mean you wouldn't have that much power without the celebrity. i mean he is being punished for being very, very famous and successful. >> i think the lesson to be learned is to date age-appropriate women for both of those men. a woman in her 50s would never journal about this. >> you're going to have to get to reality, my dear, because that will never happen. shall we do another story? i don't think we have time. we're going to take a break and then we'll be back with whatever, i don't know. it's coming up.

fights breaking out at soccer games is nothing new. in fact it's a european tradition. but that fight was between rhode island high school girls. here with me to discuss that and much more is tennis superstar and author of "on the line" serena williams. welcome to the show, serena. >> thank you. >> do you think there's a double standard in sports or are female athletes getting more aggressive. these are kids. >> yeah, i just saw that. i don't know, i just think that people are -- i don't know, that

footage there was just insane. >> uh-huh. but you are now ranked number one in the world. >> yeah. >> you won wimbledon this year. >> yeah, i did. that was really exciting to have a chance to win that. i played my sister, venus, in the final and we also won the doubles there so that was good for us both. >> it must be very hard, the pressure to stay on top like that. does it get to you? >> like i write about in my book, i never put pressure on myself. like i say, my dad always told me something that i love to live by is the only pressure you have is the pressure you put on yourself. and so i try not to let other people put pressure on me and just -- the pressure that i have is the pressure that i put on myself so i try not to do too much. >> that's interesting. i think other people can make you feel pressured too. >> they can.

that's why i just try to have my own personal goals and not think about what other people might say or may want me to do. i just try to do what i can do best. >> well, we all have meltdowns, every one of us. you recently had an incident of your own, you know about it, at this year's u.s. open on cbs sports. let's take a look at it. >> okay. you know when i guy starts yelling on the courts, they get commercials. john mcenroe has a great commercial running for a car company now, have you seen it? >> no, i haven't seen it at all. >> he was a hothead in his day. >> he was. >> big-time and he has commercials now. the commercial is rather funny, but they basically capitalize on his temper. >> yeah, i have seen those commercials, yeah. you know, it's interesting how that happens and how that is, but like i said, i don't think there was any reason for that. i definitely don't justify what i did. i've said that i don't think what i did was right. but like i say in the book, i talk about a lot of things that i did in my life that wasn't right and the mistakes that i may or may not have made.

and things that i've learned from and things like that. so i think it's good to do things and to learn from them and make sure that you do learn from them and not do the same thing in the future. >> well, your anger got the best of you in that particular incident. you were fined $10,000 for it, right? >> yeah, a hefty fine. >> have you found a way to deal now with that outburst that might come up again. >> well, you know what, i'm a really passionate person, i love to play tennis and i'm passionate about my job and i'm passionate about what i do. i am very animated out on the court. i grunt, i scream, i yell "come on," i do it all. but there are other ways obviously of expressing anger or disappointment. >> yeah. maybe if you had to do it over that day you might not be so enraged. >> i don't think -- of course if you could do over. the whole world would be a different place. but unfortunately there are no do-overs and i don't even think like that. >> what was it that ticked you off that day so much. what was it that the umpire or what the ref said. what to you call them in tennis? >> no, she was the line judge. >> the line judge.

umpire, referee, i'm really a sports moron. >> no, it was just a heated moment. i relate it to like a car accident sometimes. if you get in an accident and hit something or someone or someone hits you, you get out and naturally you're shocked and you're angry. you know, but then, you know, you just deal with it and you move on. >> did she want to hit you back? >> i don't know, i didn't ask her. >> let's talk about your family. now, your dad trained you and your sisters. >> yes. >> on public courts. >> yes. >> when you were kids, right? >> right. in california. so it was in the middle of the ghetto. and it was good for me. i got to see a different lifestyle and i got to learn from that. i think it made me the person that i am today. >> was he like a stage father, you know, where he pushes the girls to perform? >> no. like i say in the book, my dad was -- he obviously had goals for us and dreams for us which

allowed me to be the player and the person i am today. but my dad is such a wonderful easy-going guy. i always call him a pushover because i can pretty much get anything i want from him. >> really, he's a pussy cat? but i was reading that you felt that there was a certain sense of entitlement in tennis in those days. did you feel there was racism involved in the fact that most tennis was white people? >> well, the facts are definitely, especially when i first came out, there was predominantly white people that did play tennis. you know, i definitely -- it was different. before i said there was a handful of black people that did great, arthur ashe and others who definitely led the charge and opened different doors for myself and my sister. and, you know, when we came along the line, i don't think people were winning grand slams as consistently as we were and kind of bringing a whole change to the game. but venus and i, we embraced that and we like to be role models for different girls and we enjoy every second of it.

>> well, it's changed, i think, the sport and you girls have really pushed it ahead. your older sister, i read that this is a sad story. your oldest sister was murdered in 2003. >> yeah. >> in a sniper -- a sniper shot her. they were after her boyfriend and shot her instead? that must have been rough on you. >> it was rough on the whole family. we were really close. that was a picture of us at the espy awards. she was always my date to the awards show because she was always so fun. we were always really, really close. i just love my sister. and through faith i hope to see her again one day. >> some day. >> yeah. >> that must have brought you and your sister, venus, closer, right? >> yeah, i think it brought our whole family closer. we just really -- there's five of us total and we really all appreciate each other. we're all sisters and we all love each other. venus and i, we're just all so close, we always try to talk. >> how hard is it for you to compete with venus then? >> it's difficult. >> does it hurt your feelings or hers when the other one wins? >> you know what, it's difficult, it's not easy, but we do it. this is what we knew that we

wanted to do and this was our dream and to have an opportunity to even be on this level and play someone like such a great champion like venus is my honor, really. i wouldn't have it any other way. >> that's an interesting way to think about it, that she's such a great champion. >> she is, she is. >> somebody wrote an e-mail to you that said, this is from somebody named debbie. when you're competing for a title against your sister, don't you really want to smack her if she wins. and then she wrote lol, laugh out loud, she's teasing you. do you ever feel like i'm going to smack her if she wins. >> i've got to be honest. i get really upset when she hits incredible shots, which she does all the time. she hits every ball back. and i look over and i'm just like, oh, and then i just try harder. she lifts my game and i lift her game and, therefore, i think we lift everyone else's game. >> does she get mad like you did that time? does she have a meltdown? >> venus is really, really calm. we're totally different. i'm really outgoing and passionate and venus is more

soft but just as passionate and just as into everything as i am. >> different temperaments. >> uh-huh. >> more when we come back.

and i am back with the current number one ranked tennis player in the world, serena williams. serena, you have a lot of comments in your book about your size and you hate your thighs and all this other stuff. body image feelings about yourself. and yet you looked gorgeous on the cover of espn magazine naked. look at that. >> yeah, i thought that was a great cover. i've really been working on just being positive. i felt people should know that even though people look at my body and say, wow, she has a great body, she's so perfect, that everyone has moments where

they don't think they're perfect. everyone has moments where they look in the mirror and think wow, i don't feel great today. everyone has that and i thought it was important for people to know even someone like me has those moments and it's okay to realize that but still love who you are and just be happy with what you are so blessed to have. >> did you like the picture? >> i love the picture. it's actually one of my favorite pictures. >> did your father like it? was he like oh, serena, what are you doing? >> i think so. i never really asked. >> you were covered up really, but it's a suggestive shot. >> it is, it is a little suggestive. >> do you think it's going to come back to by the you in the butt? >> no, no, no. i think it was so well done. i worked with a great photographer and espn did such a great job with it so i was happy. >> you're also the co-founder of mission skin care and the other founders are athletes as well. >> such as mia hamm, myself, we and sergio garcia. we decided to come up with a skin caroline that is created by us, tested by us and sold for everyone else to enjoy and

actually have a really, really good product. and so it's coming out in cvs pharmacy this week so it's in h several cvss around the usa and i'm in australia with great heat and i have great skin caroline that can do with the sun and stuff like that. >> so it's for athletes? >> it's not for athletes, it's for everyone. everyone has an active lifestyle. like if you just go outside, i think it's really important, especially now with the ozone layer, to protect your skin. we have moisturizers, we have cleansers and facials and all kinds of stuff that can protect your skin. >> so i can wear it just watching tennis. >> i would encourage you to wear it, especially if you're just watching. >> here's a couple more questions from facebook and twitter. >> okay. >> because people are interested to talk to you. what do you think about andre agassi's honest admission about crystal meth and his fake hair? he's out there with this. >> i might have been more shocked about the fake hair.

>> you didn't know that was a toupee? >> no, did you? >> well, it looks a little nestish. this one they're not showing him with a wig. that was a lot of hair on his head. >> i guess i was too young to realize what he was wearing. obviously the drug allegations were -- i thought it was a shame because he's such a good athlete and i don't think one moment in history can define his career because he's done so much for tennis, with tennis. >> i've heard of steroids and athletes but crystal meth sounds like it would speed you up too much. that ball would go flying who knows where. >> i don't know how much it enhanced his performance, if any. >> the last question from twitter is what type of guys are you attracted to. >> yeah, that's a good question. >> that's from a woman. hello. >> you know what, i am attracted to guys with a great body. i love bodies. it's all about the body to me,

which is really shallow in a way, right? >> it's a little shallow. it doesn't last. the body goes, i hate to warn you. >> i've got to start thinking like that, but unfortunately -- >> i think height might be a factor. >> i'm doing my shallow moment in my life. >> thank you very much, serena, for coming on. we'll be back in just a minute. $

earlier this week i sat down with the queen of southern cuisine, paula deen, and her husband, michael groover. we had so much to talk about we couldn't cram it all into one show. paula used to be agoraphobic so i asked if she couldn't leave the house, how would she do her grocery shopping? >> i would have to wait until my husband got home. i just felt like i had to get out. i was panicking. it's like i was suffocating. but i'm what i call a functioning agoraphobic. and y'all, people are so unfamiliar with an agoraphobic,

but let me tell you, you are not going to meet an agoraphobic. they are home. they are home. they are home where they're safe. >> it's all on the telephone. >> yes. >> i guess you were on the phone a lot. >> i did. i talked on the phone a lot. >> what would happen to you if you went out in the air. you'd get a panic attack? >> i could, i could. just thinking, thinking. so many people, joy, are surprised because as well as they thought they knew me, they didn't realize all these thoughts that were going on in my head, the panicked feeling, the brown bag that i kept in my purse so i could run into a corner and breathe in it to quit hyperventilating. >> had you considered medication? they have medication for things like that. >> yes, but i wanted to get to

the root of my problem. >> i see. but you spent 20 years suffering like that. >> well, see i made ds and fs in high school, well, grammer school i made cs. i'm not the brightest bulb in the socket and i taught myself. so it took me 20 years. >> so you're a self -- >> but once i get it, honey, i got it. >> yeah, i know you do. and then this brown bag thing, i want to hear a little more about that. so you figured out that you needed to make some money. >> yes. >> the hubby was not bringing in the bread? >> no, i was 40 years old, you know, when i realized i still had some life left in me. and i wanted to make some changes. and in order for me to make some changes, i had to come up with a living for me and my children. i had to take responsibility for myself. i went from my father's home to my husband's home. >> we all did that in those days. >> so many women out there are like you and i, our age range, no job experience, no husband because he's got the 25-year-old cute little trophy on his arm. and here we are trying to figure

out -- >> mike, you feel like you have a trophy on your arm, don't you? >> i do. i really do. >> you do. i mean she's a strong person. and look at where she's come. it's an incredible story when you think about it. >> and i scare people. my strength scares people sometimes. >> yeah. maybe it's the bacon that you put in everything that's scaring everybody. but, you know, i had -- >> i was the most surprised of all, joy, because i thought i was very weak. >> didn't anybody try to help you at all? did you go to a clergyman or something? >> i did go to a pastor one time and i went and cried my eyes out to him. at the end of the hour he looked at me and he said you are a spoiled brat. >> really. >> i said i beg your pardon? i'm a what? he said you've a spoiled brat. i said well, you know where you can go. you can go straight to hell and i will never see you again. >> well, that was a very invigorating moment for you. >> he was a baptist

psychologist. i shared my heartbreak over my parents. >> he had no sympathy for the fact that your parents died when you were so young. >> no, no. he said i was a spoiled brat. >> thank you couldn't leave the house, that you had panic attacks and that you were raising your kids, nothing. >> said i was a spoiled brat. >> isn't that lovely? is he dead? i hope he's dead. >> i don't know. but we were sitting there in the church house and i told him to kiss my big fat one and to go to hell. >> well, see, even though you were scared and afraid to go out, you had guts. >> oh, i've always -- >> you had a mouth on you, i think. >> yes, i've always had a mouth. got me in trouble. >> it was just a question of when you were going to find an audience, so you found one. >> when i was going to realize my own strength. >> and at what point in your success period did you come to

the conclusion that you really are okay now? do you feel okay now? >> yes, i do, i feel great. god has blessed me unbelievably. >> and you're happily married, i see. >> i'm happily married, at least 30% of the time. i'm kidding. i'm kidding. >> and you're also very philanthropic. you're in some kind of organization, feed the hungry coast to coast tour. what is that. >> i'll partners with smithville, finest meat products in the world, and they have joined up with the ufcw, and we have made a commitment -- >> ufcw. >> uh-huh. united food closet workers, i guess. >> something like that. >> yes. and we have made a commitment that we are -- together we are going to feed 20 million people in the next three years. and today we had the pleasure of going to the food bank in the bronx and we dropped 250,000

pounds of protein. >> where did you drop it? >> at the food bank in the bronx. we just flew over and started throwing the hams out and whoever caught one. no. but it's protein that the food banks are so in need of. you know, they get lots of pasta and dried things, but it was the largest donation -- >> that's wonderful. >> yes. so we've made a commitment. we're going to feed people from the east coast to the west coast. and i so thank you for allowing me to -- >> and you have a talk show coming up too. >> well, i don't know. i shot a pilot. i shot a pilot for one. >> isn't that against the law? sorry. >> isn't she the funniest thing you've ever seen? when i laugh, i just kind of holler. >> it's not swine flu, is it?

>> listen -- no, it's not. no, it would be h1n1, but i don't have that either, just a sinus. so anyway michael told me one day, he said, you know, i was happily married for such and such 20 years and he seemed like -- it seemed like 20 minutes. i said really? he said yeah, underwater. >> you guys are great together. >> be sure to check out the charity paula is involved with called feeding the hungry. her husband's book is "my delicious life with paula deen." up next, sarah palin makes a claim so ridiculous that even fox news had to call her out on it. 6

don't go anywhere. miss sarah palin is back in the news and this time fox news is taking her on. with me to get to the bottom of why are magician penn jillette and roy sekoff, founding editor of "the huffington post." let's watch this. >> pallin said she had been talking to a friend about how the phrase "in god we trust" had been moved to the edge and not on either guide. who calls a shot like that? who makes a decision like that? it is a disturbing trend. politico writes unsaid but implied was that the new democratic white house was behind such a move to secularize the nation's currency. in actuality the coin's design was commissioned in 2005 when republicans controlled congress

and then was approved by then president bush. >> actually bush okayed it but only because he couldn't say the word secularized. >> what's wrong with the coins? >> are you surprised that they did this? >> i think they have to if she's saying crazy things. i mean it's -- it didn't even have it on the coins, until the mid-50s. >> where does she come up with this stuff? >> that's one of the things you can find on snopes. i was just going to say if it were up to me i'd move it off the coin, i'm on the other side of the coin. >> she has never let the facts get in a good raging paranoia. she's very good on that. but you're right about that, foreign policy is the same thing. she gets it on the internet so maybe we'll pay off the debt by the nigerian money that's in the bank somewhere. i'm getting all those e-mails lately. >> a woman wants to run for president, she has some nerve. >> this is where it gets scary. it's not that she's just not looking at snopes which would tell her the truth, but she's basing it all on that. >> exactly.

>> how it gets that far. how she gets to say -- doesn't anyone on her staff know that? ooimz surprised when someone is wrong on something. >> what staff? >> levi johnston was too busy to say, sarah, it's not on the coin. >> that's kind of cool. she has no staff, she's just going off half caulked. crazy people speaking in public i'm always in favor. >> i know when she was with mccain she was not very much liked so maybe they were sticking it to her. anyway, it's similar. what about the obama part, implying that he's not religious enough. that's a low blow, i think. >> but he is religious. as a matter of fact, his references to churches and where he is, he's very, very religious. >> do you think it was the religious thing? i think it was just the general, you know, government conspiracy kind of thing. who would do a thing like that. the democrats, the socialists. >> it has god knit. once god is in it, you know they're trying to get a little dig at the religious part. >> god was not accidental.

>> no, that is true. >> do you think that she cares if this is false? does she even give a damn, that fox is saying she's full of it also? >> i think the scary thing is she thought it was the truth. they say her friend told her and so she took it. >> you're right, she did give her source. she did give her source. >> that was good. >> a friend told me. she gave her source. we just ignored that entirely. >> if you clicked on that link on the internet, you would have gone to it and seen her friend saying yes, i saw it somewhere, it's true. >> let's do another subject. the other day on capitol hill, representatives from the catholic church were seen meeting with nancy pelosi, which led to the stu pack amendment, that's being added to the health care bill banning federal funding for abortion. whatever happened to separation of church and state. why are these bishops involved with nancy pelosi? >> i'm an atheist and hard core

atheist. >> what do you mean a hard core. >> hard core. >> there's no doubting. >> he has no doubt. >> i don't believe other people believe in god. that's how hard core. but i'm totally with the catholics on this. they should not have to pay for things they are morally opposed to. it's a very important issue. >> you know what, penn, you want to stick your two cents into government, then pay taxes. that's my point. >> you talking about tax the churches? i'm with you. >> tax the churches. if they want to get involved in politics, they should be paying taxes. >> i don't think -- i don't know how i'm suddenly in this position, but i think if you're a person of faith, you should have a voice in the public square. it's not that. so the separation of church and state doesn't mean you're not allowed to express yourself. the question is it's been so perverted. this is what you're saying,

penn. there is 10% of the people in america identify themselves as atheists. one member of congress. do the math, one member of congress. you can't get elected unless you're wearing religiousity on your sleeve. >> the majority in this country are pro choice and yet the house of representatives is pro life. >> the scary thing about this amendment that you're talking about, the law already is that there is no federal funding for abortions. they're trying to take it beyond that and give women no choice in what kind of insurance they can buy. >> you can't buy insurance for an abortion now unless you have to put it as a rider. we've been learning this all this week. you have to buy it as a rider, which is ridiculous, because you can't predict you're going to have an abortion. you don't know if you're going to get pregnant. >> well, there are things on how to get pregnant. >> why this the bishops worry about other things, caring about the poor bingo games. >> this is the key. in matthew, it says that we're judged by the least among us. if we're not taking care of the 46 million people who don't have

health insurance, wouldn't you say they're the least among us? so they're trying to stop health care reform. it's a perversion of what the bible says. jesus in the sermon on the mount, right, he said don't parade your piety. >> while the catholics were working overtime on the health care bill, mormons were surprising everyone by supporting a gay rights ordinance. okay. do you know about this? >> oh, yeah. >> in salt lake city. >> the mormons are stepping up to the plate on, you know, rights. they can -- gays shouldn't be discriminated in housing, et cetera. >> but this has been the policy of the mormon church for quite a while. i think they're coming forward with it because they got such heat about prop 8 in california. >> do you think they really care? >> they do. it's getting economic. >> maybe mitt romney would run also and that would look bad for him. >> he's got the secret underwear on. >> there is magic underwear. >> it's all about marriage. it's like the word "marriage." why they are so obsessed about the word "marriage." >> couldn't we get the government out of marriage entirely and have it be a personal and church thing? why is there straight marriage?

why is the government involved in any of that? shouldn't that just be a personal thing, who you've decided to spend your life with? >> well, you know, a lot of gays have civil unions now. that seems to be coming along nicely. but marriage involves more benefits when you're married. >> it's actually more -- >> people want to be married, it's not just religious. >> but there are a lot of penalties for not being married. >> i don't know any. >> my wife and i got married because you can't be sure, absolutely, were something to happen to my wife i would get custody of the children without marriage. it's really, really important. i would like to see those scaled back the marriage restraints and just do civil unions for everyone. >> the sad thing about the mormon church is, though, they say that they will allow members to be gay but they can't have sex, they have to be celibate. we know how well that worked out for catholic priests.

not so good for the choir boys, though, not so good. >> but the thing about it, you're okay to be gay but you can't have sex. >> that's right. >> so what does it mean? >> that's like going to disneyland but you can't go on the rides. just get the food. >> do you think that they're fair to gay people in general, the mormons? >> of course not. >> how about other religious institutions? >> in general. >> yeah. >> no. i think it's obviously been a big problem and that's the problem with having religion so front and center in such a dominant part of american politics. as you say, they are obsessing about marriage and they are obsessing about abortion but not much talk about poverty. not much talk about the poor. if you took out all the mentions of poverty and poor from the bible, very thin book. >> but you have to say that the hierarchy of the catholic church may have its issues, but the foot soldiers in the catholic church do a lot for poor people and for aids victims. they do. i want to give them credit because i'm always on the case of the hierarchy because of the pedophilia scandal but there are so many priests and nuns who

actually do their job. i just want to say that. >> that's because they're people. most people are good, most they're not doing it because they're catholics, they're doing it because they're people. >> right. >> and the overwhelming majority of people are good. >> but i think we don't want to undercut the fact that people of faith have had a major history of doing good things, whether it's martin luther king or what the catholic church did down in nicaragua or el salvador. so i don't want to say all people of faith are getting involved in politics in a negative way. >> you're being so positive, you're going to turn him against atheanism. you can catch penn at the penn and teller show in las vegas. up next, i'm joined by a gay activist, exmormon and oscar winner. that's a triple whammy. you will want to stay for that. oh, yeah. >> why is she pointing at me? >> i'm not pointing at you.

here are three things you usually don't hear in one introduction. guy, ex-mormon and oscar winner. dustin lance black, guy activist and oscar winning writer of the movie mink joins us live. >> i was one of the writers. >> you know all about mormonism. >> i do. i know a rot about it. i grew up in it. >> you are not in it anymore. >> i'm not. most of my family is still active. i still love them. once you are in that family, you're in it together. that is the great thing about the mormons. >> but you call yourself an ex-mormon. >> no. i don't go to services anymore

and there's a lot of reasons for that. the guy thing is a big one. >> are you surprised about the mormon churches support some guy rights now? >> i am. i got to be honest, i'm thrilled. i think to a lot of people, it seems like a little thing because it's not full acceptance, clearly. it's sort of a step towards tolerance. it's just about nondiscrimination. but if you are in that church and know that church, you can see it's a signal to the entire population saying it's not okay to discriminate anymore, which is such a huge change. >> so you think it's coming out of the goodness of the heart. >> i think it's a little bit of both. i think there is something political going on. i think that they do want to see more mormon people in positions of power in washington d.c. they already have some very important people, harry reid in power in washington d.c. >> glenn beck is a mormon also. take that with a grain of salt.

>> but i think i want to see more, exactly. >> what about prop a? they were the ones who were blamed for prop a. >> that's when they moved to the right. they moved so far to the right. i know they are seen as an extremist. their history is being seen as an extremist. i think they are now being seen as that again and politically that's devastating. >> remember what during the primaries, romney was saying from a religion that was extremist. that was not good for them. they are trying to redo it. >> that's what they have been going through since the '70s. when i was born you could not be a full member if you were black. since the '70s try to change, trying to come more mainstream, don't want to be seen to the far extreme right. >> i don't think people most americans really understand. we hear things like magic underwear. what exactly is that? >> my mom had them. i saw them. i tried them on a couple times.

i got to say it didn't do much for me. >> how did they respond to you when they put on your mother's underwear. >> i got caught by my stepdad. not well. >> did you get hit? >> no. >> what did he say? >> nothing. it was never discussed again. like everything is sort of pushed under the rug. >> do you have advice for guy kids growing up in mormon households before we go? >> when i was a little kid in the mormon church, i heard the president of the church, though beam him to every church, he said next to the sin of murder comes the sin of homosexuality. that was so devastating because i already knew i was guy at the age of eight. >> what do you see to these kids? >> i say listen to your church now, that it is not okay to discriminate. >> stop watching "project run way" in front of your parents. >> keep watching and let them know it's okay. >> thank you all for watching. good night, everybody.

breaking news tonight, live, north carolina, a 5-year-old little girl vanishes without a trace from the child's own home. mommy tells police she left the little girl on the sofa 5:30 a.m. one hour later, the baby is gone. a 5-year-old goes missing from her own sofa? is child, wearing nothing but a t-shirt and underwear, her favorite blanket found discarded, covered in feces in the neighbors trash. tonight, where is 5-year-old shaniya.

>> reporter: a 5-year-old girl is missing in north carolina. authorities expect foul play. she went missing at about 5:30 local in the morning. >> a neighbor heard someone outside her house about 3:00. >> somebody was beating like that. >> when the banging stopped, she went to sleep. when she woke up, police were at the door. >> they told me they were taking off my trash can because they found a blanket in it. >> she thinks whoever banged on the wall put the blanket in the trash. >> i had an extensive conversation with a woman by the name of barbara davenport. she is the manager of the sleepy hollow mobile home park. if someone were to come at 5:30 in the morning to take shaniya out of the residence she said absolutely. there's no way anyone could get through that trailer without someone else knowing. >> helicopters, search dogs have

been out. they never picked up a scent of the child outside the home. that's a little disturbing to police officers, because if there was any trace of the child outside the home, they say the dogs would have picked that up. >> we don't have any indication that she walked outside of her home, actually physically walked away. the canine would pick up her scent. so, no, they haven't picked up her scent. >> tonight, to oregon and the disappearance of a gorgeous young satellite tv woman, jay my sue austin. she calls her mom to say the water is on the blink, wants to shower at mom's. fine. noon, the workplace called mom to ask where is jamie. she never made it to work. mom races home to find daughter's car still in her driveway, the shower used, and signs in the bathroom of a struggle. tonight, her mother with us

live. where is 31-year-old jayme sue austin. >> the frantic search under way for 31-year-old mom jayme sue austin. after she appears. police calling that disappearance suspicious and have activated a team. jayme punctual to work. she called to say she was running a few minutes late because she couldn't get water at her house. she called her mother just a few doors down and asked to use her shower, but she never made it to work. her car found at her mother's house, but no sign of jayme. how could a 31-year-old dependable mother simply disappear? also tonight, live, arkansas, grainy surveillance video shows mother and daughter shopping at as about sam's club. they make it home. sams club bags brought in. family dog in the den.

no sign of mother and daughter. their black toyota pick-up found abandoned at a local strip club. tonight, all signs pointing to foul play. what happened to mother and daughter, louise and christina bishop? surveillance cameras from the sam's club in arkansas capture them finishing their shopping and leaving the store. that was the last time anyone saw either of them. the pair have been missing since. and they suspect foul play after their car was found abandoned at a strip club 20 miles away. they were concerned when the nephew came to the home after not hearing from them for a few days. they found the front door open,

the alarm shut off, groceries and medications on the counter, but no sign of louise or christina. the car was found abandoned at a strip club in southern missouri. police believe the car was abandoned shortly after the women's disturbance. the vehicle was taken to the crime lab for processing. it is unknown what evidence, if any, was found. >> good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. live, north carolina, a 5-year-old little girl vanished without a trace from the child's own home. mommy tells cops, she left the girl on the sofa at 5:30 a.m. one hour later, the baby is gone. a 5-year-old goes missing from her own sofa. bombshell tonight. her favorite blanket covered in feces found discarded in the you neighbors' trash. what does it mean? >> where is little shaniya davis? police in fayetteville, north carolina say the 5-year-old girl reported missing. she's in extreme danger.

5:30 in the morning, mom says she put little shaniya on the couch and reported her missing an hour later. >> investigators arrived on the scene a little after 7:00 in the morning. >> they told me they were taking off my trash can because they found a blanket in it. >> police told her the blanket belongs to the missing girl. >> there was feces spread across the porch and rail at their house. and this blanket was covered in feces. >> moore also says police are looking at surveillance video of anyone that left around 3:00 that morning. that morning. >> barbara says that after shaniya was missing, you can see on the surveillance tape the family coming around and looked as if they were looking for a child at that point. >> police don't believe she wondered off. the circumstances are questionable. >> i don't feel she wandered away from home. >> her 7-year-old brother, the

mother and a person whom they have only identified possibly as a boyfriend. >> the more people we have, the more people that are potential witnesses or potential suspects. and they are going to start with everyone who lived in that house. >> straight out to mr. scott. the bombshell tonight is not good. the fact that the little girl's favorite blanket is found in the neighbor's trash can, that the blanket was covered in feces, and that it's my understanding there was feces found on the neighbor's porch. i'm not clear on that. what can you tell me? >> reporter: it's what the police were saying. the feces were found on the back porch and on the blanket as well. they are looking into any connection there could be. we also know the house wasn't a

very clean area. as a matter of fact the family isn't being allowed back in the house because of sewage problems. they are not in the house. and police are continuing their investigation there. but as you said, bombshell as of right now is that blanket, which they hope is the clue that can lead them to where this little girl actually is. >> with me, in addition to gurnal scott, joining us, little shaniya's neighbor. it was her trash which the blanket was found. with me tonight, andrea moore. miss moore, thank you for being with us. >> caller: okay. >> can you hear me all right? >> caller: i can hear you fine, yes. >> okay, good. again, thank you for being with us, miss moore, joining us from fayetteville, north carolina. are you their direct next-door neighbor? >> no, i'm not. i live across the street from the family. >> so, you are like the frontdoor neighbor? >> caller: right i live on the

main street coming into the park. and they live off of the main street. >> i understand. miss moore, how far away from your home is their home, would you say? how many feet? >> caller: oh, maybe 200. >> now, i'm interested in that, miss moore. with me is shaniya's neighbor of about 200 feet away. how shaniya's blanket could end up in your trash? had their family ever used your trash receptacle before? >> caller: i can't say that that family did, but many people use our trash cans on this side of the street. >> 200 feet is quite a distance to walk to throw away a baby's blanket. police recovered her favorite blanket in her trash. i understand there were feces on your back porch, is that correct?

>> caller: no. no, that's not correct. >> okay, tell me what happened. >> caller: well, about 7:30 that morning, i heard a knock at my door. i answered the door, it was a gentleman from the police department asking me about a little 5-year-old girl, had i seen her. i told him no, i hadn't seen her. he told me the child's name and asked me did i know her. i said no, i didn't know her. he let me know she was missing and they was looking for her at the time. i closed my door and came back in here, laid back down, then i heard footsteps on my porch. i went back to the living room and opened the door.

there were a lot more police officers on the porch. they taped off my garbage can. and the front of my trailer and my porch. when i opened the door to find out what was going on, they asked me, did i throw a blanket into my trash can? i told them no. i also let them know that the garbage pickup was monday, and so none of the trash cans should have basically had anything in them at all. so, he, you know, said that they were going to be possibly taking the trash can away. >> in fact, miss moore, do you have any children living in the home with you? >> i do. i have my daughter, she stays with me. she wasn't here. >> how old is she? >> caller: she's 24. >> well, i'm glad you told me her age because i doubt she

would have a baby blanket. so you said monday was the trash pickup. what day did police tell you it was in your trash? >> caller: that day. tuesday morning they told me it was in there. >> i was told that there was feces spread all over the porch and rail at the little girl's house and this blanket was covered in feces.

the search for 5-year-old shaniya davis is the main focus of fayetteville investigators. a small army of lawman have been looking for her ever since she turned up missing yesterday morning in the sleepy hollow mobile home park. >> police last saw her when she was put on the sofa. a few minutes before 7:00, the mother called police to report her daughter missing. but it's unclear how she left the home. police search woman says search dogs never found her trail around the home or in the neighborhood. >> her mother isn't called a suspect, but police are familiar with her. earlier, police searched the home and found narcotics. shaniya's mother spent most of the day being interviewed by the police yesterday who now believe foul play is involved in the child's disappearance. >> from the information that we have that we gained today, during the night, that's the easiest way to put it, during the night there's something that

went wrong. >> well, we know something went wrong. the baby is gone! she's 5 years old and the mom says she put the baby on the sofa, why, i don't know at 5:30 a.m. at 6:30, one hour later, the baby is gone. the baby goes missing off its own sofa. now, the bombshell tonight, the news is not good. this child's favorite blanket has been found in the trash can of a neighbor at least 200 feet away in her trash receptacle. we have also been told from our sources that the blanket was covered in feces. out to the lines, ashlee, california, hi, ashlee. uh-oh. excuse me, heather, west virginia. hi, heather. >> caller: hi, nancy, how are you? >> i'm good, dear, what's your question?

>> caller: it's good to talk to you. i admire you so much. >> likewise. thank you for calling. >> caller: i was just wondering, do you know if the mother has willingly taken a polygraph yet to rule herself out as a suspect? >> excellent question. what do we know about polygraphs? >> police have not told us she has taken a polygraph. all they have said so far, nancy, is that she's been questioned, she was questioned all day yesterday and again today. >> let's go to the expert. marc klaas joining us from san francisco founder of klaas kids foundation. see that button he's wearing on his left lapel? that's a picture of his daughter, pollee klaas. she was missing from her own home, kidnapped, assaulted and murdered. since then, klaas has been nothing but a victim's rights advocate. as i recall, marc klaas, when polly went missing with the the first thing you did was, please, take my dna, my hair, my fingerprints, i demand a polygraph.

whatever you want. search my place, search my car, i insist. this mother hasn't taken a polygraph. what's going on, marc klaas? >> well, i don't know what's going on. actually in 1993, dna was not a big-time investigative tool yet, so that really never played into it. we did take the polygraph. and i think they will probably give this woman a polygraph. i think they need to give her one because her story doesn't add up, quite frankly. it just doesn't make sense to me, the business of the little girl put on the couch at 5:30, then totally disappeared at 6:30. one commonality, though, is there apparently is feces in the house. there are sewage problems. there's feces on the blanket. there's feces on the porch. there's no way of getting around saying this is a crappy story and the answer lies close to home, as i said last night. >> another question i have, there are six people in the home.

are there not? and nobody heard anything? this is a mobile home, okay. it's not that big. it's about 12 x 40. there's the mother, the mother's boyfriend is slung up in there. the mother's sister, who is shaniya's aunt. there is shaniya, her older brother, age 7, and an infant. that makes six. in a 12 by 40 trailer, you want to tell me nobody heard anything? >> no one is saying they heard anything except the neighbor we spoke to saying there was a noise at about 3:00 a.m. now, you know, investigators are looking at the surveillance video. >> hold on. let's go to andrea moore. miss moore, what did you hear around 3:00 a.m.? >> it didn't sound like anyone was trying to get into my house, but i heard noise outside of the house. >> what kind of noise? >> it sounded like a struggle, but i know it wasn't anybody

fighting. it sounded like banging on my side of the house. >> right. right. >> caller: so, you know --

they searched by plane and helicopter and with dogs. they searched cars leaving the neighborhood. they talked with everybody at the sleepily hollow mobile home park. so far, officers have not found 5-year-old shaniya davis. >> police don't believe shaniya just wandered off. they say the circumstances of her disappearance are questionable. neighbors feel the same way.

>> i hope she's found alive. that's what i hope for. i don't know what to think about it. it's just so strange to me, you know, just from i have heard and how the situation happened. it doesn't add up to me. >> we are taking your calls live. straight out to becka in north carolina. hi, becka >> caller: hi, nancy, thank you for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in, what's your question. >> caller: are there registered sex offenders in the area. >> okay. becka come on, please. no matter what zip code you put in, there's registered sex offenders. here is the answer. 212 registered sex offenders in fayetteville, north carolina. an area, you see the davis home right there in the blue pinpoint. so, yes, they are surrounded in north carolina. ashlee in north carolina, hi, ashlee. >> caller: thanks for taking my call, your twins are beautiful. >> thank you. >> caller: what is the little

girl doing sleeping on the couch at 5:30 a.m. anyway? >> i don't know. i have been trying to figure that out. i know lucy and john got up at 5:00 every morning for, sometimes 4:30 for about six months. it was hell. hell. but, we would put them back to sleep. also, i don't know about the safety of lying a child on a sofa unattended. you know they are going to roll off. back to gurnal scott. what can you tell me about that? did the mom state why she put the baby on the sofa at 5:30 a.m.? >> we still don't know why it happened. a lot of people have brought up that point. first of all, a child is usually not up at that hour in the morning, at 5 years old. they are wondering why the child was put on the couch. many other things are still -- that police are trying to figure

out in the case as far as, how, like you mentioned earlier, no one in the house heard anything. and we have to consider the weather as well. it's been raining a lot here. any evidence that may be out there may have been washed away. >> cadaver dogs can smell in the rain and under water. >> but no scent has been found as of yet and it's puzzling police.

police tape surrounds the mobile home where shaniya davis was last seen. when her mother went to check on her about an hour later, the girl was missing. andrea moore, a neighbor, heard someone outside her house about two hours earlier around 3:00. >> it sounded like someone was beating like that. >> when the banging on her wall, moore said she went to sleep. when she woke up, police were at the door. >> they told me they were taping

off my trash can because they found a blanket in it. >> she thinks whoever banged on the wall put the blanket in her trash. >> every time i think with it, it upsets me. i'm sorry. >> because police told her the blanket belongs to the missing girl. >> from what i was told, there was feces spread all other the porch and rail over at the little girl's house, and this blanket was covered in feces. >> it is unclear how the feces got on the blanket. davis' family has not returned to the home because it was deemed a health hazard. police are looking at surveillance video. police don't believe shaniya wondered off. the circumstances of her disappearance are questionable and neighbors feel the same way. >> very quickly, to gurnal scott, wptf radio, why is the sewage under the house backed up? have police looked at it? >> police haven't looked specifically at it. they know, as we said, that it is backed up. they are not letting the family back in the house.

>> could something be down there, cause be a problem, an obstruction, such as a body? >> that is the question that many of us have been asking. >> well, if we are asking it, why haven't the police asked it? >> it's a good question. let me go back to andrea moore. thank you for being with us. you believe that the sound you heard around 3:00 or 3:30 a.m. was in connection with the blanket being left in your trash, why? >> well, the reason i say that is because i know that the sound came from that end of my house, and the way my trash can sits, it fits in a little cubbyhole over there wedged in between the side of my trailer and my porch. so if you lift the lid up, if you don't jiggle it straight over, it gets caught on a ledge,

like a ridge on the side of my trailer. so i know that that's what i heard, hindsight being 20/20. >> renee rockwell and joseph lawless. author of "prosecutorial misconduct." first to you, renee. what is your advice to mommy? >> well, based on what the neighbor is saying, that sound being at 3:00 a.m., her story is not matching up, nancy. first of all, she's not going to take a polygraph and secondly, she needs to quit talking. >> i don't know how much she's been talking. joe lawless, you have handled plenty of cases revolving around homicide, missing people. what's your advice? >> i'm advising them to not talk anymore, obviously. they are the focus of the investigation. there doesn't appear to be anyone else. you have seen the size of the trailer. six people in that trailer.

if someone walked in and took the child, they would have been heard and seen and noticed. police are focusing on these people at this point. and my advice at this point, as their lawyer, not as a concerned citizen about this child, but as their lawyer, i would tell them to shut up. >> i'm sure the both of you would. out to andrew j. scott, former chief of police, boca raton, florida. andrew, thank you for being with us. there has been steady rain since yesterday across north carolina. of course, it's not going to help anything, but bloodhounds and cadaver dogs can pick up a scent, even though it's rained. >> that's correct. they are not having that scent. there's not been a scent out or about from the trailer. the other issue that is so concerning with regards it any evidence that might be collected is that the rain can and will contaminate that evidence. so that is indeed a problem for the police right now. >> to dr. titus duncan,

specialist in his field. at the atlanta medical center. dr. duncan, it's wonderful to have you on with us again. doctor, if this child was killed in the home, what forensic evidence could be found there? >> if she was killed in the home, you could find things of a struggle, you could find things such as hair. >> what if it was a soft kill, like a suffocation or asphyxiation? >> you can have hair follicles from the victim, skin as well as saliva. anything that can give you some forensic evidence to draw the dna from to match it to the data base that you may have. >> dr. caryn stark joining us out of new york, the lawyers are saying shut up, clam up, shut your pie hole to everyone in the trailer. don't you think, caryn stark, that a mother's love for the child should trump what's best for her? >> well, i think so, nancy. that would make a lot of sense,

but often, it's not the case. particularly, here, where they suspect does something has gone wrong and perhaps this mother has witnessed something. you would think she confessed but my guess is she did not or would not. >> are you surprised, no matter how many times it happened, i'm trying to remember one time a mother sided with the dead, molested, abused child other a husband or boyfriend. it and i'm not remembering out of ten years of felony prosecution a single type the mother sided with the child. >> well, i think you are right about that. i think the reason is they are in this situation to begin with because they're insecure and they side with the man because they feel like they have to be with him. >> you know what, like i care why. i don't care why they side with a man who slung up.

i don't care. what i care about tonight is where is this child. >> yeah. >> we are switching gears, take a listen. >> 31-year-old mother of two was running late for work. after her water stopped working, she called her mom around 8:30 asking to use her mom's shower a few houses down. jayme is never heard from, again. jamie's car was found by her mother's house. she's nowhere to be seen. police search by land, air and water. tonight, law enforcement needs your help bringing mother of two jayme sue austin home. >> we have reporters on the scene. everyone covering this gorgeous young woman. her mother is here. thank you for being with us. jayme called you that morning, said her water wasn't working.

she never missed work, and she wanted to come to your place just a few houses down to take a bath, take a shower. >> caller: yes, that's right. >> the next thing you know, her job calls you at noonish to say where's jayme. what do you do? i have led you that far, what do you do then? >> caller: i called her best friend to ask her if she had heard from her. and she said she hadn't heard from her yet or that day. i started calling a few people to see if they have heard from her or anything. i then thought probably she -- there's a gravel road that heads there from our house. she drives the road quite often and she drives pretty fast, so i just thought quite possibly she had been in a car accident. so, i left work and picked up one of my friends in sumner,

which is a little town between us. so, she was going to help me ride the road and look for her, look for her car. in the meantime, i called another friend that lives in fairview and had him head down to meet us on the other end. he called me back just a few minutes later and said her car was in my driveway. i asked him to come in the house and look around to see if she had fallen in the shower or something. he said she wasn't here. i was about five minutes away. i came straight to my house and started looking around for her. that's when everything started. >> started what? >> caller: i mean, you know, looking for her. i went to her house to see, you know, if possibly she was at her house and had fallen and hurt herself. >> could you tell if she had taken a shower like she asked? >> caller: someone had taken a shower.

the carpet was wet clear out to my counter, you know, the counter on the other side of the room. on the other side of the room. it was quite wet, yes. someone had been in my bathroom. >> everybody, hold on. i want to get this tip line out. 541-396-3121, extension 371. please, look at this girl jayme sue austin. goes to her mom's to take a shower, never makes it to work. she was there all right, and there were signs of a struggle. where is this beautiful girl? >> jayme never made it to work and is never heard from again. jayme's car found at her mother's house, but no sign of jayme. how could a 31-year-old dependable mother simply disappear?

the search continues for 31-year-old jayme austin missing since monday. the police officers, search andres cue team, family and friends search in the area of austin's fairview home. they have also searched the land near her mother's home. still, no sign of her. austin had gone to her mother's home to take a shower but never arrived at work. >> i want to go to jayme sue austin's mother joining us exclusively tonight. she is joining us from oregon. was there anything out of place in the bathroom? was everything in place in your home? >> caller: everything was in place in my home, but not in the bathroom. you know, the sheriff's office asked me not to disclose any information about it. >> i understand. >> caller: because of what the bathroom looked like, they listed it as suspicious, you know, as a crime. >> now, i know she had a long-term boyfriend and that's the first place police are going

to look. it's my understanding, he's deployed right now. so, it's not him. >> caller: he's in the bering sea. he's a commercial fisherman. >> he's not a possibility? >> i don't believe so. i confirmed with his employer this morning that he was on the fishing boat. he has been since he left. >> miss gisholt, is it true that she had some cook calling her a few weeks ago on her cell, would continue to call her over and over. did she ever identify who that was? >> caller: no, never did, and it's actually, a couple months ago. she kind of jokingly called it her stalker. you know, he got into her cell phone messages, her home phone messages, her myspace messages. she changed her phone numbers she changed her password. he got into them, again.

and then she changed them several times. >> well, this is someone that obviously knows her well enough to figure out her pass codes. take a look. jayme sue austin, 31. she's got a smile that lights up a room. a gorgeous young satellite tv salesperson. she goes to her mom's house. her water is on the blink. takes a shower. she never makes it to work. evidence shows there was a struggle. out to the lines. hi, mary. >> caller: hi, nancy, how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: you mentioned the boyfriend overseas. and now i'm curious. she's a young mother of two. where is the father of the children? >> to lori tobias with the oregonian. where is the father of the two children? >> one is in coups bay. he has custody of the 12-year-old. the 4-year-old is with cindy. >> where is the 4-year-old tonight?

>> she's with me. she lives with me. >> right. i thought that she was living with you. >> lori tobias with the oregonian, what more can you tell me? >> well, what struck me about this as mr. frazier tells me i'm wrong, and i suspect i am. a week ago i was in cook hill to write about a ten-year-old cold case. i drove the road because it leads to the road where leah was found. yesterday, suddenly, there's another person missing from coke hill, which is this itty-bitty place in the middle of nowhere, everybody knows each other. it's as rural as can be. i have to say all kinds of lights went off in my head. >> we are showing a shot. it let's see it again.

leah vanished in june, 2000. lori tobias with an organization doing an indepth study on that. anything else? >> there are no signs of forced entry in the home. >> i don't find that unusual, clark. she goes in, for all i know, to take a shower. the car keys are found in the car on the floor of the car. somebody could have come in right behind her. >> point taken. law enforcement says the cell phone was found in the home but won't comment on where the purse is or if it was in the home. >> got it. good point. i have another story to tell you about to get your help. take a listen. >> reporter: arkansas police are desperate to find a missing mother and daughter whose family fears the worst. police say 81-year-old louise bishop and her daughter, 41-year-old christine bishop were last seen leaving a club in arkansas. he last spoke to the pair that night, but hasn't heard from them since. days later the nephew went to their home only to find the front door open, the alarm

system off, groceries and medications on the counter, and no sign of louise or christina. authorities found their car a month later about 20 miles north of a parking lot in a missouri strip club. >> mother and daughter missing. grocery bags from sam's on the counter. dog in the family den. what happened? >> apparently the nephew was concerned after not hearing from them. he went to the house. no sign of them. the front door is open. the groceries they bought are on the counter. the pomeranian family dog is quivering in the corner, nancy. >> renee rockwell, joe lawless of the philadelphia jurisdiction, what about the fact that their toyota was found abandoned in a local strip club. don't even start, joe, to tell me these two went to a strip club. just don't, all right. come up with something other than that. >> even i can't give you that one. what that suggests to me is that

someone who may have been involved in their disappearance stole the truck and dumped it when he was finished with it, when he or she was finished with it. that's all i could come up with. this one is baffling. >> it seems that somebody followed them home from sam's warehouse. >> an excellent hunting ground. how many times have you seen serial killers that followed people home. they watched them and people are vulnerable when they are putting groceries in the house. they are in and out of the house and the doors are open and they are not paying attention. another thing with this truck being dumped. on the back was scribbled free car, just to. that is interesting to me. we will be back. joe lawless, veteran trial lawyer, renowned out of the philadelphia jurisdiction, but tonight's salute to the troops. saluting her 85-year-old father and a pow during world war ii

and a korean war vet. >> we want to leave a message for our dad for being so brave in world war ii and thank him for his contribution to all the freedoms we enjoy in this great country and we just want to tell him we are so proud of him and we love him.

surveillance from the sam's club in arkansas captured louise and christina finishing shopping and leaving the store. they have been missing ever since and they suspect foul play. >> karen, they're right. something renee and joe lawless mentioned. when you are getting groceries out of car, you are not paying attention to behind you. >> if you look at them, they might be vulnerable. they are helping each other along and perhaps they were distracted. they are not young women. >> they are not. mom is 81.

>> what more you can tell me? >> christina was heard from to her cousin about 8:30. they didn't immediately go missing from their shopping trip. >> what did she have to say to the cousin? >> her mother had a doctor's appointment the next day and she would be in touch with him that afternoon. they never were heard from again. she was getting fuel that night. >> the thing is, they were at sam's club at 5:36. say they get everything out to the car and leave, get out of there at 6:00. if they stopped for gas or did any other errands, 8:00 is not that far-fetched for them to just be getting home. marc klaas, weigh in. >> i agree with everything said about the parking lot at sam's

club. i think people have to take parking lot security much more carefully than they do. a single woman should be escorted to their car. they should park under lights at night and should be certainly aware of their surroundings when they are in the lots. >> there is a $25,000 reward tip line. tonight we honor our vets. let's stop and remember david baker, 22, ohio. awarded the national defense service medal and humanitarian service medal. loved time with family at the cabin with his brother and dreamed of college and being a cop. favorite song, chicken fried. leaves parents mark and laurie, brother mark jr., twin sisters and his dog. on this veterans day, to all of our veterans, god bless you and

god bless our troops at home and abroad. thank you to our guests and especially to you. a special good night from friend of the show kay hilliard and her daughter brooke celebrating her 37th birthday. happy birthday, brooke. i will see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. i'm a.j. hammer and this is a "showbiz tonight" news break. we get under way at the top of the hour. dave's extortion war. shocking revelations from the guy accused of trying to black mail letterman. the carrie prejean donald trump smack down. striking back at the claims about him. tv's most provocative news show at the top of the hour.